Alexander Krasnovitsky: My name is Sasha Krasnovitsky. Aside from the podcast, I’m a CG artist at MRP (MainRoad|Post — ed.), where I’ve been working for the past year and a month. Before that, I mostly worked as a compositor. I’ve been making graphics since 2010: first at ALGOUS in St. Petersburg, then at SCANDINAVA, then a year and a half in Prague, a few months in Budapest, then again in St. Petersburg, and then another year and a half in Canada. In December 2020, I returned to Russia and found myself in Moscow for the first time. That’s the story.
Igor Eyt: My name is Igor Eyt, or Eight, as I call myself on the Internet. You could probably say that I’m a CG supervisor/generalist. The podcast is probably our longest-running project. It’s in its third year now. I’ve worked for longer only at CGF. As a rule, my work is limited to a single project. Although our group, matematic.xyz, has probably been around for five years already. Our longest-lived startup. Overall, I’ve been making computer graphics since 2010: as CG artist, supervisor and onset.
Igor: We started out before it became mainstream. The first episode appeared on Telegram on October 11, 2019, before the pandemic.
Alexander: Yes. I can’t even remember how the idea came to be. First there was the episode you recorded with Vanya.
Igor: (Laughing) He is the phantom of the opera. In short, our channel appeared after we all met at the Panfilov’s 28 Men project.
Matematic.xyz has a team that comes and goes. It consists of Sasha Krasnovitsky, Vanya Godomin, Andrey Sharapko, and me. We met while working on the Panfilov’s 28 Men project. Vanya was a compositing HoD. I was a matchmove HoD and took part in RnD, Andrey was involved in on-set production and RnD, and Sasha was also a compositor. Panfilov’s 28 Men was a project of Misha Losev and Andrei Sharapko, who brought us all together.
We didn’t have a big enough post-production team for a movie of that scale, so we recruited young artists who needed to be trained. Vanya recorded several tutorials and taught the newcomers the nuances of compositing. We then decided to post those tutorials on our newly-created channel matematic.xyz. At first we thought that we would post cool educational content regularly, but we quickly ran out of energy and started posting less often. We gave lectures at events and looked for new formats, but still had no idea how to streamline the whole thing.
Alexander: We wanted to release new episodes regularly and make them less labor-consuming, as we get no money from the podcast. Even now, it manages to raise just $300 a month on Patreon.
Alexander: Well, yes. At first we talked about buttons, because most of our guests were artists. And then the pandemic began, and the whole thing just exploded.
Igor: We wanted to experiment and record a video special.
Alexander: Actually, YouTube has always been the best source of statistics for us.
Alexander: Yes. And it turned out that the number of views was ridiculously low. That’s when we started thinking about making videos. Our friend and cameraman Kir was looking for an office, so we suggested looking for one together and then filming podcasts there. We made the first video in spring, when Vanya came to visit, followed by a one-month break. During that time, we prepared the studio. That’s basically how it all started.
Igor: For the first year and a half we couldn’t afford it neither financially or geographically, nor timewise. At first we edited the episodes ourselves, but then we realized that we already had a smoothly-running process and that we just needed to put in a little more effort and make a small leap.
Alexander: We recorded most of the audio while I was still in Canada. We had a bunch of people from different countries involved, but now everyone who works on the podcast lives in Moscow. Audio podcasts are easy to record. You could basically do it right after waking up. Video podcasts, on the other hand, require more preparation.
Igor: Audio and video are two completely different formats. On the audio podcast, we had guests who sounded like they were lying on a couch, lazily scratching their heads.
Alexander: Or we could hear them doodling. At the same time, the video format calls for a more responsible approach. Our guests sit in an unusual setting in front of the camera and can’t do anything with their hands.
Alexander: Yes. Both, actually. We have a chat on Telegram, and a couple of times people would come and say they had seen me on the street.
Igor: Creating content is cool and fun.
Alexander: As for me, I’ve never had any idea how to make money from the podcast. Of course we want a million thousand views, but we also simply like meeting new people and seeing that every person you meet actually has something to say. I mean, we talk about all sorts of things on our podcast, not just graphics.
Igor: Firstly, it’s not an interview. It’s a podcast. And a podcast is when people get together to talk about the latest news, work, problems, etc. Although we do sometimes prepare a list of questions for important guests.
Alexander: But in the end it all comes down to a normal conversation.
Igor: Because having a normal conversation is always more fun. There can be no live dialogue when you’re following a strict plan.
Igor: If it’s going to be an episode with someone we now, then we generally have an idea of what we’ll be talking about. And if it’s someone we don’t know and they’re not super famous, we google them and watch their showreels.
Alexander: Of course! For example, today we’re filming an episode with Ilya Shutov, whom we both haven’t met before. We simply know that there are lots of people in the graphics industry who could be of interest to us or who could be wanting to talk to us themselves.
Igor: There are lots of people we’d like to talk to. And when you have a podcast, it gives you a great opportunity to write to someone and say, “Hi! We don’t know each other, but we’d like to chat with you.”
Alexander: It’s usually me. You know, the industry is not that big. Of those involved in cinema graphics, ninety percent have heard about us and the podcast, so it’s very easy to reach out to them. If memory serves me right, we’ve had only two occasions on which people refused an invitation to the podcast, and that was either because they were too busy or because they didn’t want to speak publicly at all. But usually everyone is in favor of talking and sharing their thoughts.
Igor: People love that we have a very friendly and relaxed atmosphere.
Igor: Well, you haven’t offered us any money, have you? We’re not popular enough for that. (laughs)
Alexander: Our episodes rarely get more than three thousand views.
Igor: In regards to money and production quality, a lot depends on Kir. All the equipment we use is his. He gives us a cameraman and we sublease his studio. We fund the podcast by running an online school.
Alexander: Everything we buy comes from the school, because it is mainly advertised through the podcast.
Igor: We have a rule: no annoying ads. The podcast shouldn’t exist for the sake of the school. We want to keep them separate.
Alexander: The two of us do most of the work. Denis, a guy Kir has introduced us to, edits and mixes the sound, and Sasha films the videos. I mainly write stuff, invite people, and figure out what and when we’re going to shoot. Eight uploads videos, makes pictures, and makes sure the editing is fine. That’s about it.
Alexander: And Vanya is trying to launch his own mini-podcast with the school’s students.
Alexander: Short feedback videos. A couple of them are already available for watching. The format is still changing, but one day we’ll probably settle on something. Or just run out of students.
Igor: Our editor knows his job, so we trust him. We can usually get an idea of what the end result is going to be like during the filming process.
Alexander: If we feel that something should be edited out, we simply say so.
Igor: We’re glad that the episodes come out regularly. It hasn’t been easy, but we can finally say that we’ve got everything running smoothly. It takes us a week to shoot enough material for, let’s say, a month. Then we upload it all to the editor’s proxy server, and he gives us finished episodes that we render and release.
Igor: We actually need a targetologist, because the number of views we get doesn’t match the quality of our episodes.
Alexander: Also, as we’ve said before, this interview will help us come up with an intro. Something we can put at the start of our episodes.
Igor: In most of the podcasts we’ve seen, presenters introduce themselves. But there are exceptions. One of such podcasts I’m watching is called My Obrecheny (We’re Doomed). It’s hosted by an IT specialist and a psychologist. They simply jump into the conversation without any introductions, and it looks really good and authentic. I don’t know anyone from their industry, but it doesn’t stop me from finding their podcast very entertaining.
Igor: Yes. I guess so.
Igor, Alexander: Restaurants and menstrual cups! (laugh)
Alexander: Then we’ll remove the CG and simply call it Podcast No.1.
Igor: We need an ID. We need targeted advertising. We need to, at least once a month, invite famous guests and ask them to repost the episode.
Igor: They’ve added us themselves. So now, when we post an episode, we get an option to post it in their group as well.
Igor: So far we’ve had no problems with that. We try to find an individual approach to each of our guests.
Alexander: But a couple of times people did want to listen to the episode in advance.
Igor: Yes. There was one.
Alexander: It’s just really bad. The whole conversation is very dull, and the topic is strange. So we decided not to release it.
Alexander: We’ve listened to the material and decided to scrap everything. In truth, something seemed off from the start, but we decided to try and make an episode anyway. But in the end, we simply had to end the conversation out of courtesy.
Igor: You see, our guest was a bit too full of himself. At the time, we had already had much more professional and modest guests. And that guy thought way too highly about his job.
Alexander: There was also a funny story with Anton Ryabkov.
Igor: We have a buddy named Anton. At the time, he had just come back from Australia, where he was working on the movie Cats, editing out cats‘ anuses. He’s a very nice and friendly guy, and we made a great episode. But then he started worrying that he had sounded too critical about the studio.
Alexander: The podcast was then five months old and had two hundred listeners max, and Anton was worried that someone in Australia would hear him.
Igor: In the end, he still gave us the green light to release the episode. It turned out super nice. You can still listen to it. We’ve simply bleeped all the mentions of the studio.
Igor: For the most part the censorship was in our heads and we simply turned it into a joke.
Igor: In March, we expect the number of subscribers to reach 7,000.
Alexander: We don’t mind criticism. Actually, I have a plan that no one supports: that someday we’ll be able to simply remove CG, leaving only Podcast No.1. Then no one will be able to accuse us of getting sidetracked in our conversations. But overall, there is not too much criticism. And when there is some, it’s generally so toxic that it’d be strange to pay any attention to it.
Igor: I’ve seen many complaints about me interrupting people. But firstly, it’s a conversation, and secondly, I try to do it as little as possible. And thirdly, it’s none of your business. Just listen to another podcast if you don’t like ours.
Alexander: Guys, in case you’re wondering, this is actually the edited version. (laughs)
Igor: Sasha is the mastermind.
Alexander: I was the one who came up with the school’s name.
Igor: I really want Sasha to finally make some mini course after he wraps up all his teaching this year. It’s an interesting experience, especially given that we have our own platform.
Alexander: We have three courses: for those who are just starting their career in computer graphics, for those who want to improve their compositing skills, and for those who want to learn about matchmoving.
Igor: Yes. Those are all our guys.
Igor: Less than the podcast.
Alexander: It’s probably just one year old.
Igor: We’re getting ready for the fourth batch of students.
Igor: We found them among our podcast listeners. They came because they knew the teachers. We’re very friendly and we easily invite people from other schools. I’m talking about the teachers and the founders.
Alexander: We don’t have any rules forbidding to talk about other schools. We love sharing knowledge and information. Especially since it’s not a competitive environment. No one in the Russian educational segment will teach you how to matchmove. No one. There may be some PFTrack tutorials or stuff like that, but definitely no courses on equalizing. Trust me. I’ve checked. Maybe Andrey Savinsky or someone else is offering paid courses on similar topics, but that’s about it. Overall, our content is unique. We don’t compete with VFXLab, Online VFX, or someone else.
Igor: The teacher designs a curriculum and records lessons. They then send those lessons to students every week and chat with them for several hours.
Igor: Yes. Absolutely. We initially offered three different formats: pre-recorded lessons, pre-recorded lessons plus conference calls, and individual lessons. But after the first course we realized that we liked only the group format, because conference calls are a great way to discuss various interesting and important topics.
Igor: Probably not. We’d be glad if there was. I could be wrong, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard any negative feedback from our students.
Igor: Yes. If someone doesn’t like something, we give them their money back. Although we still haven’t had anyone say they didn’t like the course. There was a person who paid and then moved to another city. But we are a small school and we’re ready to work individually with each student. We’ve already had three batches of students. About 150-200 in total. We’re definitely not Skillbox.
Igor: No. But we don’t promote that. To get subscribers, you need to constantly remind people to subscribe, and we only ask them to donate to us on Patreon.
Igor: I’d say it’s working at a loss. We take the missing funds from the school’s budget, justifying it by the fact that some of the people who come to the school have learned about it from the podcast.
Igor: We give 50% to the author of the course, invest 25% in development, and use the remaining 25% to pay dividends, salaries, etc. As for the podcast, it’s more of a hobby.
Alexander: It owes us.
Igor: Yes. As we’ve said before, we need a targetologist. For now, the podcast brings us zero profit and only eats away out money.
Igor: Of course we work. It’s just that we get to practice our hobby for a week each month.
Alexander: That’s because Eight has moved to Sochi for the winter. Before that, we usually tried to record new episodes every once or twice a week to keep them regular, remember how to speak, and just hang out with friends as if we actually had the time to do that. You could say we were working while at work.
Igor: If we closed the podcast, we’d probably start earning more.
Igor: No. Firstly, it doesn’t cost us that much. Part of the money we spend comes from the school, so we feel fine taking a little of it, given that the school and the podcast are run by the same people. But we still need a marketer, and ID, and popular guests about once a month.
Igor: No. We’ll be doing it until we get tired.
Alexander: We don’t want any big numbers. We like everything as it is. Let it all unfold naturally.
Igor: Sometimes. But then we just grit our teeth and pull through, and things quickly get back to normal.
Igor: I’m not in charge of this spring’s batch, because I’m afraid that I’ll get too tired and won’t be able to give it my all. But I’ll think about the autumn batch. As for the licenses, I’ve been offering them to the guys in the chat. Maybe they’ll follow my example.
Igor: Well, firstly, we have successfully introduced Cerebro into our creative project COPIKORRUPT. Secondly, Sasha and I are making a series and are also using Cerebro for it. That’s already two projects.
Igor: There is one thing, yes. It’s important not to worry about the number of views and not to get your expectations too high. If you do, you may start feeling like you’ve failed. I think the most important thing is to just have fun and at some stage make your project a part of your everyday life, so that it doesn’t feel like a chore.
Alexander: Yes. The process of preparing and recording episodes has become a part of our lives over the past two and a half years. Running a podcast is cool. Everything happens quite easily. I can’t say we’re suffering or having to endure something. I wish everything else in life were that easy.
Igor: There is some truth to that, but we haven’t felt it yet with regards to the podcast. It doesn’t bring us any money. Although even that project demonstrates perfectly well that there is nothing more permanent than the temporary. If you have expectations, you start thinking that both you and the others must meet them. But the people who work with you may not share them. So if everything is fine, you should just enjoy the moment. And if you can’t, you should just stop. The longer the podcast lives, the better. But the main thing is that everyone has fun.
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